Okay, how powerful are the angels? I put this question in there because we don't talk about it much, and I think the angels... We actually underestimate their power and their purpose and how many there are, like there's millions of them. Before he begins, because I'm definitely deferring, Dr.

James Dolezal did a podcast on theology in particular on angels, and I have not listened to it, but I have heard that it was fantastic. My son Joshua has said that it would be a good thing for his mother and I to listen to. So for listeners out there, Dr. James Dolezal, who we continue to pray for, him having had this accident or having been hit, but apparently it's just gold.

Excellent stuff. Yeah, yeah, no, I agree. And IRBS, the seminary that we support as a church, and that's near and dear to us, they recently, over the last couple years or a few years, have introduced an elective course on the doctrine of angels. That James Dolezal, Dr.

James Dolezal himself, had taught previously. It's, I think, a one-credit course that they offer, sort of pulling the doctrine of angels from out of the context of the larger doctrine of creation and treating it separately in an elective course. So, yeah, very good. Dr.

Dulzall is excellent on this topic. So, there's a lot of them, and they're real powerful. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. But I would say devils are all over the place, right? Like, I believe there's devils here because they want to pick away the word and confuse and distract and make their minds wander, right? But are the angels, they're both spirits.

So they're everywhere as well, right? Yeah, you know, I mean with the angels, I mean you said it, it's an interesting topic, it's an intriguing topic. The Bible speaks about angels, and so I think the Christians to one degree or another ought to know something about them. They have been created for the glory of God.

Their ultimate created purpose is to attend unto the throne and sing the glories of the triune God. We see that. In places like Isaiah 6, holy, holy, holy is the Lord God of hosts. The whole earth is filled with His glory.

They fly and they remark concerning the unmitigated majesty and glory of God. And the Bible also says that they do have a particular service or ministerial purpose as well. For example, in the book of Hebrews, in verse 14 of chapter 1, we read Paul saying that they are ministering spirits sent to minister to those who will inherit salvation. So, the Christians ought not to be strangers to angels in the sense of knowing about them, understanding them.

I think there can be a prevailing mania that can exist within popular culture with regards to... And an unhealthy obsession with regards to angels. But the Bible does speak about them, and I think we ought to know something about them. Amen.

Yeah. And the same with demonic spirits, Jimmy. And obviously, you don't want to get preoccupied and be caught up in that. But realize there are nefarious forces.

We don't wrestle against flesh and blood. There are principalities. There are powers. There's a wonderful little book by Carl Truman on Martin Luther, and just how Martin Luther was a medieval monk, and they saw a demon behind every bush, you know, and there was that consciousness that there was a spiritual battle.

And I have to admit, for my own part, I don't always think that same way. I mean, I know they're out there, and I know that they're opposers of truth and Christ, and probably at our church services versus anywhere else, because they, like you mentioned or referred to, they want to pick that seed like the birds of the air, lest people hear it and believe and be saved. So, to consciously think of that opposition I think is necessary, and I think it is helpful to sort of define the boundaries of what we're doing. But yeah, I mean, I'm not.

You know, and it probably owes to some semblance of, you know, had I come out of a Pentecostal background, some of them have a more defined sort of approach to these things, which I just didn't have. So, I'm, you know, trying to learn and not be caught up or consumed with, but mindful of, I think is probably the better way to be. Yeah, and you know, the Bible does speak, or it presents, it narrates, it captures some exciting things with regards to angels in the history of the nation of Israel, for example. I think in 2 Kings, and it's repeated in the book of Isaiah about a single angel and slayed 185,000 Assyrian soldiers in one night.

You ask the question, are angels powerful? Yes, they are powerful, more powerful than men, definitely. Obviously not as powerful as God, they're created spirits. But being unbounded by the corporality that we have, the material nature that we have, They're powerful.

They know more, they can do more, and they are strong beings, the angels themselves, in service to God and in ministering to His people. We have these created mighty ones, the Bible calls them, that are on our side. without getting into some sort of unhealthy speculation. Actually, there's a quote by Turretin that he uses, and I think it's actually in the context of learning about and studying angels.

He said, it's better to be ignorant without crime than to search with peril. which is good in any head of theology, but on this topic as well, what can we know and what can we not know about angels? But what we do know, what the Bible sets forth is quite an exciting picture. They're strange, they're mighty, they're servants of God, and they're ministers to those who will inherit salvation.

Yeah, just looking at Luke 2, verse... Oh, I missed my reading glasses. I don't know why I forgot them, but Luke 2, verse 13. With the birth of incarnation or the birth of Jesus, suddenly there was one angel, but with him was a multitude of the heavenly host, praising God and speaking.

Yeah, and you know, that goes back to their ultimate purpose. That's the ultimate purpose of the heavenly host is to, you know, to attend the throne and praise God. And in that, they're very instructive and serve as exemplars for the saints of God, for Christians. You know, the angels are our example with regards to what one of the main thing is with regards to creation, the cosmos, and all it contains.

It's the display of the glory of God. It's the triune God showing forth His glory, His might, His divine purposes, His good pleasure in creation, in providence, and in the salvation of sinners. And I'm just thinking of the book that C.S.

Lewis wrote, like Screwtape Letters. Probably familiar with that one? That's a great book. That's a really excellent little book.

I haven't read the whole thing. I've read some pieces and quotes. The strategy is very helpful. How would a senior demon communicate to a junior demon?

And it really does provoke thought, and it does show that there are things going on behind the scenes. It's a very helpful book. Yeah. Every day, everywhere, every interaction.

those devils aren't sitting out in the desert somewhere where there's nobody. They're not sitting on the mountaintops. They're around people by the hundreds or whatever, right? But then he was going to write a book apparently on angels.

And then as some people explained it to me, He's like, just couldn't do it. Because you can kind of imagine what devils do, because that's inner heart is sin and rebellion, right? There's some connection there. I don't know what a perfectly holy being can do.

No, you can, right? Right. That's perceptive. Yeah.

But yeah, these devils. So I was going to do this as two questions. We'll just cover it as one, right? Kind of goes together, right?

Because devils are fallen angels. Yeah. Exactly. With angels, we get this picture that they've all got wings and stuff, right?

And the devils, we imagine they've got horns and a pitchfork. They don't. No, they don't. Neither of them do.

They're spirit beings. They're created spirit beings. The Bible does speak to the fact that angels instrumentally use material things in order to manifest themselves and to communicate, of course, under God's sovereignty and providence, instruction and guidance. you know, yeah, angels are spirit beings.

They don't have wings. You know, when we see them depicted with wings and when we see them or read of them depicted as having wings, or of course, you know, within medieval art and those sorts of things, when they have wings, I think it's just indicative of their swiftness, their speed, the manner by which they can move from one place to another. They're unconstrained by the materiality and the corporality that humans are. And so, speaking to their power, they they can move quicker than we can.

I know that the medievals and Thomas and others have mused over what angels can and can't do. But yeah, I think we can conclude that because they are unconstrained by the bounds that we are constrained by, those wings depict their fleetness in the service of God and in the ministering to the saints. And they don't get sore lower backs. Kind of connected is Al Martin has some stuff for ministers and burnout and says, you're not disembodied spirits, you're not angels.

You need rest, you need good food, you need exercise. There's a distinction between a created spirit being versus created spirit body beings. We're not angels, and they're not us. So yeah, they're swift because they don't hurt their knees.

There are some differences, and we need to appreciate that. I mean, they don't need eight hours of sleep or seven hours of sleep. We cannot do the work of an angel. And at times, it's intrigued me.

I mean, it seems smart to me to use angels to preach the gospel. They never get it wrong. They're smarter. They got more energy.

But God, in His infinite wisdom, took earthenware vessels and put that gospel treasure in them to communicate that truth to others. It's His purpose and plan. That's right. And I think that the caricature of the devil with the horns and the pitchfork, as I understand it, was medieval sort of picking at the devil.

It was to, you know, he's a being that's proud and arrogant. So it's a caricature and, you know, putting, making him look foolish, really. Whereas, you know, I don't think for a moment that he's got a pitchfork and horns and a cape, but that's the modern conception. I think it is owing to that, you know, let's depict him this way as a way to make fun of him and pick at him.

But I think they show up in people, or show up in pulpits even, and they look polished and charismatic and friendly and everything, but it's bad doctrine and everything that's just... Yeah, it's tough for me, though, to know, I mean, there's just a lot of dumb men out there, or evil men, that may, it may not be a demon, it may just be a wretch. So, you know, for me, that part's always been hard to parse out, right? Like, what is...

you know, this guy's an actual demon, or he's demon filled in espousing heresy, or he's just a moron, you know? I mean, not that being a moron is somehow okay, but it's not as bad as being demon filled. I mean, it would take a lot for me to get to the point where I would say to somebody, I think you're under, you know, demonic possession. But some people have such a strong unbelief that it's beyond just normal.

I think there's a Bible text that there's a spirit of unbelief. It's a demon on its own that can fill somebody, right? There's so much bitterness, anger, offense at the gospel. Yeah, and back to that Luther thing, a demon behind every bush.

I've met charismatics for people that came out of that background, and it can be overdone as well. Oh, there's a demon of rainy days. It can get bizarre. And if you give a sinner the opportunity to blame something, he usually will.

Oh, it's this demon. No, no, it's you. You're a wretch. You need to repent and forsake your sin.

And if I ever thought I did meet somebody that was demon possessed, the answer is always the same. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. That's right. Yeah.

Have you ever walked into one of these little shops where it's like all the witchcraft stuff and Halloween and all this stuff? You're like, I think there's one in town here. Like you step one step in, you're like, no, I'm out. It's just so dark and you're like, this is so wicked.

Where is it in town? I think it's right in by 1881. 1881, yeah, there's one in there. A witchcraft store?

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, witchy boo-boo or something like that. Is it really? Like in the shop area or on the main street?

One of the little back alleys, one of those new places. The back alleys, yeah. And it just smells weird, right? Like incense and whatnot?

Yeah, these devils are powerful, but yet James says, resist the devil and he will flee from you. And full stop. That's it. It's a simple strategy.